The channel “Hromadske” acting chairman of the State Migration Service of Ukraine Maxim Sokolyuk and deputy chairman of the Center for Political and Legal Reforms Viktor Tymoshchuk told about the changes that are preparing for Ukrainians One of the bills so-called visa-free regime №3224 “On Amendments to Some Laws of Ukraine with respect to proof of citizenship of Ukraine, of identity or her special status to liberalize the EU visa regime for Ukraine“.
This bill addresses issues of control over people who can cross the border from Ukraine in the context of the liberalization of the visa regime? But, probably, not only is it?
Maxim Sokolyuk: Draft Law №3224 – it changes to the existing since 2012 the Law of Ukraine “On the unified state register.” The mission of EU experts expressed some remarks to the current law, which we have in the bill №3224. First of all, it concerns the issue of new internal passports, the so-called ID-card, and the system of self-identification. Based on the work of the passport system – identification of citizens.
This bill sharply criticized the MPs. In particular, the chairman of the parliamentary committee on preventing and combating corruption Yegor Sobolev. According to him, he did not pass the analysis of the Committee on the corruption component and considers that creates opportunities for corruption.
Maxim Sokolyuk: We have received comments from deputies and made changes to the bill.
Victor Tymoshchuk: I think the government is manipulating the bill. Its main purpose, which is named in the document – issuing internal ID-documents today already regulated by law. There is a law on the demographic register, which we absolutely do not perceive, but it works and provides for the issuance of a passport card and the resolution of the Cabinet of Ministers approved the two forms of the card.
In addition, there are two serious objections to this bill in terms of procedure. This passport bill that should get in the Human Rights Committee, but instead he was sent to the Committee for Foreign Affairs, and then to the Committee of information which it approves. In fact, at the bill, there are two dangerous moments.
First, it offers a new government is now legitimize the Unified State Register of demographic. For those who are engaged in privacy it is obvious that it is unacceptable database for a democratic state. Secondly – the legitimization of the State Enterprise “Document”, as a mediator in the issuance of passport documents. There is an alternative draft law №1632. It was registered six months ago, I was examined by the Council of Europe and has a positive conclusion, but does not move. But, two weeks before the “visa-free day” appears №3224 and should be taken immediately.
Maxim Sokolyuk: №1632 bill does not provide for the identification of citizens, it provides only register of issued documents. The question of identification, we had to decide even before the introduction of biometric passports for traveling abroad, but then it has not been settled. Therefore, a prerequisite for the issuance or replacement of internal documents should be the identification of citizens.
Now it does not work?
Maxim Sokolyuk: She now works on paper. All that should contain demographic registry defined by law in 13 points. 12 Th of which already exist on paper, in addition to fingerprints stored in the archives of the State Migration Service (hereinafter – the HMS).
But the 13th point – that is, information of the Visa Information System (hereinafter – VIS), which according to experts is the database. We have changed the item. The new wording specifies that the information from the WSI – the time and date of receipt of the data.
Why do I need this identification of the citizen, if the bill that brings us closer to visa-free regime with the EU – a requirement in Europe? And what exactly is it? What do they fear?
Maxim Sokolyuk: European experts insist that we need to know exactly who issue the documents and shall ensure the identity of citizens.
That is, to be an electronic register which, if you have questions, you can check whether it is a real document? This is a fair request?
Victor Tymoschuk: In some countries there is a register of the population, but the key question: how much information can be kept in a registry? Information should be sufficient, but not excessive. That is, if you want to get a passport, then I, as a state, do not have the right to request information about your children or your marriage, since the passport that does not matter. Today, this information is on paper, but we must remember that the electronic information is easy to handle and easy to find. Who will have access to it and how it will take advantage of it? This big risks. We do not oppose electronic register, but in civilized countries it or passport registry, or register of the population, and it has only the information which is in the passport document, and no more.
Maxim Sokolyuk: The issue of biometric documents arose after the terrorist attack in the United States, when it became clear that it is impossible to establish the accuracy of 100% paper. It was therefore suggested that the electronic media documents containing hardware security control (from the English. “Monitoring security” – Ed.) – Specialized public and private keys. This makes it possible to confirm that the document issued by a citizen of a country.
Victor Tymoshchuk: Any questions regarding the internal document, which propose to introduce so-called ID-card. Essentially, the same sheet, but in a more convenient form. In what shape it should be?
There are two options: a plastic card with a sufficient level of protection against counterfeiting, or digital media.
In Europe, such ID-card with digital media, since they do have fingerprints and EU residents traveling to these documents between the two countries, they do not need a passport. Ukrainians, this document does not give anything.
The bill №3224 stipulated by applying graphic information about the place of registration of the person, and we have two years called HMS correct this deficiency. The man asked all the time location: the polling station, in the clinic, a bank, a notary public, at work, everywhere verify your residence. If this information is recorded only in electronic form, it means that someone else must have additional devices to read this document. In Germany, too, the digital ID-document, but made a simple logo sticker with the address, which is worth a penny, and it is technically regulated.
Maxim Sokolyuk: Information on the place of registration of course is the discussion. We have experience in Germany, the experience of other countries, but if the label is not protected, it will forge the way today counterfeited stamp in the passport to the reception. We have proposed a solution in which the registration information contained in the electronic register, and citizens can obtain a free extract from the register with the information.
Victor Tymoschuk: How much will this cost? How much will the ID-card? Do you have account? How much will the equipment to be able to work with these cards?
Representatives of the GMR is the sum of 300 000 hryvnia for the equipment of one workplace. We are not so rich state to carry out costly reforms, the effect of which would be minimal. Today, there are much more simple and cheap electronic features.
Maxim Sokolyuk: The validity of the documents, which will be introduced from 1 January 2016 – 10 years. It is long enough, so we have to think ahead. Replace the paper document is only a piece of plastic, maybe more secure, but a piece of plastic that does not add any function – is wrong. For example, in Kyrgyzstan using a card with a digital signature, you can vote in the elections. Digital signature expands services for citizens.
In fact, it is tempting. There is your electronic signature and you can spend it with the help of some operations. This will be a single document to travel abroad?
Maxim Sokolyuk: Today there. But after two or three years – it is quite possible, as this document will meet all international requirements.
How much will the ID-card?
Maxim Sokolyuk: We have not yet received a detailed proposal from the state-owned enterprise which is engaged in manufacturing cards. It is estimated it will cost about 180 hryvnia. When we have accurate information, the proper conduct a campaign to explain when and to whom you need to change the documents.
Victor Tymoschuk: How the state can carry out such a reform, not having accurate calculation how much it might cost? And how much is the creation of a demographic register? Even during Yanukovych called the cost of creating the registry population – 800 million. Hryvnia, then it was 100 million dollars.
Maxim Sokolyuk: Today, before you start working with documents and with the introduction of 1 January 2016 of internal documents already spent about 200 million. Hryvnia.
Be sure to need to change the internal document?
Maxim Sokolyuk: It is not mandatory. Today, neither the draft law nor the decree of the Cabinet of such a rule does not. All documents are valid for the period for which they are issued.
Chairman of the parliamentary committee on foreign affairs Anna CSAC notes that the bill on the contrary may worsen the issue of liberalization of visa regime, because it is contrary to the Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms of 1950 and the Convention on the Protection of Individuals with regard to Automatic Processing of Personal Data 1981.
Maxim Sokolyuk: We got quite clear from the remarks of the Ombudsman. After negotiations and discussions we have decided all disputes.
Victor Tymoshchuk: But the population registry, which we have now, involves the collection of information, from the place of birth, place of residence, name, and the rest as information about your marriage, your children, your parents, about the documents issued by the state. The risk that this information could fall into the hands of criminals, to the secret services of other countries, our law enforcement agencies. There are risks, and we should talk about them.
According to the materials “Hromadske“